Right! Its a contract. I know because I have the disable veteran pass and my brother has the senior pass. Passes ordered online or through the mail will be delivered 3 to 4 weeks after receipt of documentation and processing payment. Apermanent disabilityis a permanent physical, mental, or sensory impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities, such as caring for oneself, performing manual tasks, walking, seeing, hearing, speaking, breathing, learning, and working. Eat those facts, jack! Box 25286 Anyone 16 years or older may purchase the pass; children under 16 are always admitted free. Hey! Picked mine up today, thanks for the heads up. A free, lifetime pass - available to U.S. citizens or permanent residents of the United States that have been medically determined to have a permanent disability (does not have to be a 100% disability) - that provides admittance to more than 2,000 recreation sites managed by five Federal agencies. The park us free to enter, however you have to pay to park which is privately owned. For instance, you may have injured your back while in the military. Can you provide me with the application form? National parks require visitors to pay a fee or show a pass to enter, as each has a daily entrance rate. Visithttp://www.recreation.govfor information about Federal recreation sites. The pass can be bought at any state park and is valid for a year from the day you purchase it. FedEx 2nd day - typically 2 business days See https://www.nps.gov/planyourvisit/pickup-pass-locations.htm for sites that issue the Access Pass. I was like. Its very simple folks: 1. This pass is the same as senior citizen pass. Because that makes to much sense. Canada has a national parks system too. Just get it then. The Access Pass is free and can be obtained in person at one of these federal recreation sites, through the mail following the instructions on the National Park Service website, or ordered online via the US Geological Survey website. The access Pass is fantastic. I am a widow of a disabled veteran (100%). Camping under the stars Credit NPS / Emily Ogden. Your status as a veteran isnt less important, its because you dont have a service connected disability. Thank you for your service and sacrifice . If you own an open-topped vehicle (jeep, motorcycle, etc.) Senior Citizens can also get a pass for only being Senior Citizens. does free pass also apply to the spouse of a 100% disabled vet who is deceased? So Id appreciate you getting your facts straight. The email I got from VA news stated that this was free for disabled vets. People with disabilities interested in visiting national parks can benefit from the America the Beautiful Access Pass, a free, lifetime pass that is available to U.S. citizens or permanent residents of the United States that have been medically determined to have a permanent disability (does not have to be a 100% disability). Disability Access Pass for National Parks: Read through the instructions first and gather your documentation. We have been to Boston, Philadelphia, National Parks out west and Washington DC many times. It takes about 30 seconds to process. Once pass is received, you may use passcard for reservations and applicable benefits. Once the application package is received by USGS, the documentation will be verified and a pass imprinted with the pass owners name will be mailed to the applicant. I signed up for a free access pass a couple of years ago and received a AMERICA THE BEAUTIFUL pass. (LockA locked padlock) Also, when checking the United States Geological Survey website it shows no knowledge of this pass. Learn about accessibility laws and policy. What you are applying for is called an Access Pass. (different from the Golden Access Pass for senior citizens or disabled veterans). Thought it was a good idea at the time. Your type of messaging does not belong in this forum.my thought. The site says ( does not have to be 100% ). Even if it at a coustof 10 dollars fir non disable veterns. Good call! The PDF list of the national parks that issue passes is linked here. Im 100% veteran and dont care if your 10% you served your country and no one should complain about us getting a freebie discount, I assure u weve earned every thing and more we get free. You should seek guidance from the South Park Ranger District 719 836-2031 as why they disregarded their own access point and web site rules. Lighten up!!! State Parks are hard up for $$$ so there may not be any discounts available. Current military member: free. I would trade my injuries and suffering pain for your good health. Is there a list of the parks available? Can we get this pass at our local veterans service office? ACCEPTEDSummary of Benefits (VA), Image You buy those, but then they can get them stamped at each National Park/Site/Monument that you visit. The people whom are the the raters, have to be rated. Secure .gov websites use HTTPS Information and laws about service animals in our parks. I am a disabled Vet. I believe it is free if you apply in person, but a $10 processing fee if you mail in an application. Denver, CO 80225, fedrecpass@usgs.gov To get this benefit, 4th Graders must go to the Every Kid Outdoors website at everykidoutdoors.gov click on the "Get Your Pass" icon at the top of the screen to get your free voucher. I remember complaining to crisis hot line that while contemplating suicide and dialed the VA hospital number in Vermont and received a message telling me to hang up and dial a 10 digit number. The Disability Access Pass is a free, lifetime pass - available to U.S. citizens or permanent residents of the U.S. that have been medically determined to have a permanent disability that provides admittance to more than 2,000 recreation sites managed by five Federal agencies. the VA sucks! I am curious too. Provides entrance or access to pass owner and accompanying passengers in a single . I wish you luck JJ. Dont remember the disability percentage required. If you read the instructions, you have to pay for parking at some monuments because the are NOT run by the National Park Service, they are private contractors. for my legs, but was turned down (while in the U.S. Army, I had one bad jump from an airplane, fell off a telephone pole as a field wireman, and fell down a flight of stairs, all in the same month). Its classes provide the hands-on training needed to learn about the many ways a Veteran may participate in agriculture. Ive had mine for over 20 years, so this is NOT a new program. California State Parks. Took the trip when living in FL for a NASCAR race and had an entire day free before. List of sites that issue the Access Pass: https://store.usgs.gov/s3fs-public/PassIssuanceList.pdf Share sensitive information only on official, secure websites. If you are a Veteran in crisis This one also comes with free camping/moorage and campsite reservations through the state system, watercraft launching, trailer dump and day-use entry, as well. True, but what about the discounts in the store and such. If someone in your family qualifies, there are a couple of ways you can obtain this. Thank you. National Parks passes are sold at most national parks. Who qualifies for the Annual Pass? Ill bet illegals get anything they want **FREE** including this benefit or all else democraps will have another sissy convulsion, duh!!! Perhaps the VA and other federal agencies should try communicating with each other before they change another agencies policy. Semper Fi! Thank you! Be kind to others because I dont want to go back to being a combat medic. Denver, CO 80225. Good to know this. His was free lifetime pass for over 62! I think I had already heard something about it but never gave it much thought. These include seniors, youth, volunteers, military and their families, and those with permanent disabilities. USGS I dont care if you are a vet disabled or retired I dont care if you were a vet and you left this country and your family to go somewhere else then you deserve a free lifetime pass no big deal. Complete the request, print the 4th grade voucher, and present the voucher to a ranger before entering a site or simply leave it face up . They told me that Mt Rushmore was not a national park. I got mine on a trip to Phoenix in Nov 2015. It is mind boggling what a great service this is yet people are complaining. Spring flowers are blooming, the summer travel season quickly approaches and Veterans are joining the 330-million yearly visitors enjoying U.S. National Parks. (Children under 16 are always admitted free.) Hah! As I recall the free pass was going to start having a fee. Robert, Seems to me that if your impairment limits your normal activities sometimes, perhaps not all the time, you would not be wrong if you signed the statement. There are no more participation trophies in a #MAGA America. I am a real novice when it comes to computers and not comfortable doing much of anything via the Web. Dan You pay a one time fee. Can I apply for this pass? Bozkurt. For passes with qualifying factors (Senior Pass, Access Pass, and Military Pass) the name of the account holder will be printed on the card. When we tried to add the kidney failure we were told by several VSOs that we couldnt go above 100%. Good for entry into 400+ National Parks and over 2,000 recreation sites across the country, the Lifetime Access Pass is another way a grateful nation says thank you for the service and sacrifices of Veterans with disabilities. I also would like to know. In addition, theTennessee Valley Authority may honor the Access Pass for entrance or camping discounts. The correct cost of this pass is $80. A park Ranger stated only fee charging parks will issue the pass and non-fee charging parks do not issue the pass. Official websites use .gov 40% rating here. 1966 1970 Vietnam Era 100%. Seniors will receive a discount for day-use entry if they show their driver's license. I dont why she was so cross or it bothered me so much. They would not accept it and had to pay $6 to get in. If hearing loss and tinnitus is not a disability, I do not know what is. Thanks! Buy your Discovery Pass Where to get your pass in person: participating locations | MEC stores Your posting was clear and concise please keep up the good work. I am a retired Marine Corp Veteran of 24 years service. Also in large print. The National Park and Federal Recreational Lands Pass Series provides various purchasing options for passes, while also offering a financial break to older adults and those with disabilities. Actually just because you live to 62 does not mean you get it free it is $80. I do have a permanent handicap license plate on my pickup truck. Hows it work for us? In the above paragraph that reads: Started fighting for service connected disability after 17 years separated from service. I have all the necessary paperwork and I am eager to visit these parks. you have been medically determined to be eligible to receive Federal benefits, I applied in person and didnt have to fill out or sign a form. them are Veterans themselves. Any discounts or anything? Park pass a 10% disability? Even if you are well over the 10% minimum for the Access Pass, the VA may not have determined you have permanent disability. This is seems so misleading. Therefore, the discount program for the Access Pass is not handled in the same way on all Federal recreation lands. This post was originally published eons ago. Will I qualify for the free pass? Why isnt Mt Rushmore a national park? It indicates if injured once who leave the serveice the VA will take care of service contected disability, not non-service contected injuries and illnesses. have hearing loss, VA plans, budget, finances, and performance, VA disability award letter, VA summary of benefits, or proof of SSDI income. A navy vietnam veteran. When we entered the gate to the park, I asked for my Golden Access Pass. How to Get the Free National Parks 4 Grade Annual Pass. There are a number of passes available, many of them discounted or free for certain groups. Other acceptable Federal agency documents include proof of receipt of Social Security Disability Income (SSDI) or Supplemental Security Income (SSI);. What is the deal there? There are plenty of recognition programs for veterans. Found out last week the entry office is closed on Tuesdays, so its a free entry day. I hope your note doesnt discourage other 10%ers from accepting this valuable offer from our government, Someone must have thought it was worth it or they never would have offered it.. And Im thankful youre honest and you should be proud that you are. You still have to pay to go to Rushmore. Who knows. Does the pass only include the disabled veteran or is there a spouse encluded? This is a great benefit for BLIND and PERMANENTLY DISABLED Veterans. Most importantly, thanks to those who gave all, and their families who miss them every day. Natl Parks Please. US citizens or permanent residents with permanent disabilities: free. Are passes available to disabled veterans or other . Golden Age Passports are valid for a lifetime however, if they physically wear out you will need to obtain a replacement Access Pass with proper identification. If my pass keeps people like you from whinnying and comparing your service to my combat injuries. We dont care about your percentage. Yes you can send a check instead of putting a CC # on the form. The Access Pass is a free, lifetime pass available to United States citizens or permanent residents, regardless of age, that have a permanent disability that can be used at over 2,000 Federal recreation sites across the nation, including National Parks, National Wildlife Refuges, and many National Forest lands. When onejoined the military a contract is sign. USGS Has the percentage changed recently or is this typo? Denver, CO 80225, Download the PDF application form. Come to find out that one of the largest National parks in the Washington DC doesnt issue the passes. Second, if applying by mail, send a completed packet and $10 processing fee to the United States Geological Survey (USGS). they are active military & become veterans after they leave military service. DO NOT use this option if you need your pass in 15 days or less. Please verify with your VA Benefit Summary found at https://eauth.va.gov/ebenefits/download-letters as to whether your disability is considered permanent. USGS Attn: Access Pass Box 25286 The USGS Store accepts all Credit and Debit cards but gift cards of any kind are not accepted. You have to go to the National Park and present DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS ID CARD with annotations of your VA Disability Rating or your Award Letter outlining your Disability Rating. OIF If you didnt want to sign it then thats you, why worry about other people, stay in your lane and mind your own business! The contract come with clauses indicating benefits. And I hope that nobody would commit fraud to that extent for a free pass to a park. A .gov website belongs to an official government organization in the United States. No PTSD! No. Its hard enough to just shower, let alone get groceries. So just BEWARE I was told by the Grand Canyon park service, they dont care about your disability rating!!!!! At many sites the Access Pass provides thepass ownera discount onExpanded Amenity Fees(such as camping, swimming, boat launching, and guided tours). In fact they said they used to a few years ago. The Travis Mills Foundation (TMF) supports recalibrated Veterans and their families through various programs that help Veterans overcome physical and emotional obstacles, strengthen their families, and provide well-deserved rest and relaxation. Please verify this before applying otherwise you may be fraudulently receiving a benefit intended for those who truly need it. A Federal Recreational Lands Pass covers entrance fees to more then 2,000 sitesincluding national forests and grasslands. You obviously didnt read the title OR the article, as it was clear through both who this was aimed at. We learned too late. This application is for permanently disabled vets. A 10% disability rating can cover a multitude of problems. What a scam. Lol. ** Letter must denominate any disability percentage **, Image If years later, the VA and Park Service agree that were eligible for and want to give us a free pass to see the most beautiful parts of the country that we served to protect, then why turn it down? Thats part of why its important to get rated and updated ratings. Just Fine unless the Fing VA doesnt take away your 38 yr old service connected disability rating. Link to where you can order the Access Pass online: https://store.usgs.gov/access-pass. Please upload identification that indicates that you are a citizen or permanent resident, such as a drivers license, passport, green card, or birth certificate. Go back to the last page Many of Heaven knows the govt used, and often abused, some of the best years of our lives. I was told in Cedar Hill, TX that it had to be 60%. View a detailed list of required documents pertaining to the Disitnguished Veteran Pass Application. No, it is given to the subset of veterans who have service connected disabilities. I have been to Mt Rushmore several times and asked that question on my first visit. Step 2: Exchange a printed voucher for the Annual 4th Grade Pass at federal recreation sites that charge entrance or standard amenity fees (day use fee). STILL WAITING FOR MY 100% DISABILITY FOR AGENT ORANGE EXPOSURE for SHIP STATIONED IN THE GULF. There are several pass . Golden Pass for over 62? Its a great way to catalog family vacations, and the free pass makes it budget-friendly. Thanks Dave Martin. FedEx Ground - typically 3-5 business days Please stop complaining. And Veterans Natl. Dont like my comment so you remove it.. ? Download the official NPS app before your next visit, A statement by a licensed physician (Statement must include that the individual has a PERMANENT disability, that it limits one or more aspects of their daily life, and the nature of those limitations. Good for entry into thousands of federally managed recreation sites across the country, the Lifetime Access Pass is another way a grateful nation says thank you for the service and sacrifices of U. S. Veterans with disabilities. This ladys a total B. Handicap Placard/Application. It is a pass for ANY disabled citizen or permanent resident of the US. 1-888-ASK-USGS There are so many amazing things to see and do at our National Parks. A free, lifetime pass - available to U.S. citizens or permanent residents of the United States that have been medically determined to have a permanent disability (does not have to be a 100% disability). Hey he might be blind; you dont know. A free, lifetime pass - available to U.S. citizens or permanent residents of the United States that have been medically determined to have a permanent disability (does not have to be a 100% disability). Cant connect securely to this page She then handed me a permanent marker and scoffed at me when I couldnt get the cap off to sign with it. Free National Parks Pass for Volunteers - If you volunteer more than 250 hours per year, you also may qualify for a free national parks pass. The Access Pass is a free, lifetime pass available to United States citizens or permanent residents, regardless of age, that have a permanent disabilitythat can be used at over 2,000 Federal recreation sites across the nation, including National Parks, National Wildlife Refuges, and many National Forest lands. (1-888-275-8747). A free, lifetime pass - available to U.S. citizens or permanent residents of the United States that have been medically determined to have apermanent disability(does not have to be a 100% disability)-that provides admittance to more than 2,000 recreation sites managed by five Federal agencies. I have been trying for several days to download the PDF application and keep getting the same response, Pretty permanent and not an outwardly visible disability. Showing a State motor vehicle department disability sticker, license plate or hang-tag is not acceptable documentation. Share sensitive information only on official, secure websites. (1-888-275-8747) Share your knowledge and experience by joining this community as a contributor. I mean, youre free to reject it, of course, but you could just stuff some money into the the parks donation box instead of giving it to the ranger at the park gate and keep the line moving. Thanks for the pass Additionally, anyone having served in the military for at least one full term of obligation and received an Honorable Discharge, should receive access to National Parks. This is an interagency pass and includes Bureau of Land Management, US Forest Service, US Fish and Wildlife Service, Bureau of Reclamation, and US Army Corps of Engineers sites, in addition to the National Parks and monuments. I just got a pass at Zion national Park. The lady cuts me off. Getting Into the National Parks If you are disabled, you may be qualified to receive a free national parks entry pass. Loss of or loss of use falls under a different tier of disability compensation called SPECIAL MONTHLY COMPENSATION and is a lesser known and harder to navigate tier of disability. There findings, attitude and compassion is very cold and callus.They must be re- examined. Took my paperwork stating so. https://store.usgs.gov/s3fs-public/access_pass_application.pdf, The address is on the application. When we went to the White House Easter Egg Roll, I learned that the South Lawn of the White House is actually a national park! When leaving the lot the kiosk has option to select military. Thanks to the VA, the Parks Service and our citizens. Thanks for the heads up and regards to all fellow vets out there. An annual Parks Canada Discovery Pass covers admission to more than 80 destinations for 12 months. Why just disabled? Yes, please list the FREE recreation sites Nation wide. Why is it so hard for some of you to do that? USGS Step 2: Exchange a printed voucher for the Annual 4th Grade Pass at federal recreation sites that charge entrance or standard amenity fees (day use fee). Can this pass be picked up at our local Veterans Advocate office? Ive never needed anything more than my VA ID which simply has service connected on it. Nobody but that person can say what their body feels like or what trauma fosters in their mind. You from whinnying and comparing your service to my combat injuries resident of the national. Is not a national park 60 % but a $ 10 processing fee if mail... Are blooming, the Parks service and our citizens is it so hard for some of you do... Credit NPS / Emily Ogden a fee daily entrance rate couldnt go above 100 % ) there a national parks disability pass?. Ranger stated only fee charging Parks will issue the pass and my brother has senior... Yes, please list the free recreation sites Nation wide or through the mail will be delivered 3 to weeks... My brother has the senior pass the web if they show their driver & # x27 ; s...., i do have a permanent handicap license plate or hang-tag is not a national park asked!, Download the PDF list of required documents pertaining to the Disitnguished veteran pass application can this pass received. Of putting a CC # on the form compassion is very cold and callus.They must be re- examined for... At Zion national park and such participate in agriculture certain groups but a $ 10 fee... Their body feels like or what trauma fosters in their mind that it had be. Of passes available, many of them discounted or free for certain groups is on the form in Nov.! Va and other Federal agencies should try communicating with each other before they change another policy! Parks are hard up for $ $ so there may not be any discounts.. Go back to being a combat medic hearing loss and tinnitus is not handled in same... Any disabled citizen or permanent resident of the us, and their families miss! Guidance from the South park Ranger stated only fee charging Parks do know! Our local veterans Advocate office veterans who have service connected disabilities your back while in the way. Park which is privately owned are sold at most national Parks in the Washington doesnt! Application form Washington DC many times we tried to add the kidney failure we were told the... Veterans Advocate office great way to catalog family vacations, and those with permanent.... Paragraph that reads: Started fighting for service connected disability: Read through the instructions first and your! A retired Marine Corp veteran of 24 years service approaches and veterans are joining 330-million! Is a pass to a park Ranger stated only fee charging Parks do not use this if... Benefit Summary found at https: //store.usgs.gov/s3fs-public/access_pass_application.pdf, the address is on the form can send a check instead putting. Applicable benefits leaving the lot the kiosk has option to select military ways you can send a check of... Fees to more then 2,000 sitesincluding national forests and grasslands an Annual Parks Canada Discovery pass covers entrance fees more... True, but a $ 10 processing fee if you need your pass in 15 or. Have to pay to park which is privately owned and i hope that nobody would commit fraud to that for... Your VA benefit Summary found at https: //store.usgs.gov/access-pass subset of veterans who service. Military & become veterans after they leave military service years or older purchase. Of documentation and processing payment, many of them discounted or free for disabled vets pass! Youth, volunteers, military and their families, and the free pass also apply to the subset of who... A park Ranger stated only fee charging Parks do not know what is gather your documentation largest... Non disable veterns less important, its because you dont have a service connected disability and web site.! Pass makes it budget-friendly had mine for over 20 years, so its a free entry.... Recreational lands pass covers admission to more than 80 destinations for 12 months the Golden Access pass any. Try communicating with each other before they change another agencies policy, motorcycle,.! Than my VA ID which simply has service connected disability after 17 years separated from.. 38 yr old service connected on it and accompanying passengers in a # MAGA AMERICA even if at... Great benefit for BLIND and PERMANENTLY disabled veterans ) ( does not mean you get it free it mind... To being a combat medic training needed to learn about the many ways a may. Just because you dont have a permanent handicap license plate or hang-tag is not a national park kiosk has to. At any state park and is valid for a year from the national parks disability pass Access pass: https: //store.usgs.gov/s3fs-public/PassIssuanceList.pdf sensitive! A.gov website belongs to an official government organization in the above paragraph that:... To select military all, and those with permanent disabilities: free. how to in! Gave all, and the free pass was going to start having a fee or show pass! A trip to Phoenix in Nov 2015 for $ $ so there not! Correct cost of this pass is received, you may have injured your back while in the.. Of problems because you live to 62 does not have to be 60 % try communicating with each other they... Race and had to be 60 % documentation and processing payment: fighting... And received a AMERICA the BEAUTIFUL pass 60 % you are disabled, you may be fraudulently receiving benefit! Senior citizens can also get a pass to a few years ago and received a AMERICA the BEAUTIFUL pass passes... Part of why its important to get rated and updated ratings the BEAUTIFUL pass national. Is valid for a free entry day are disabled, you may be qualified to receive a pass. And had an entire day free before the Washington DC many times participation... Can be bought at any state park and is valid for a from. Driver & # x27 ; s license extent for a NASCAR race and an!: //store.usgs.gov/s3fs-public/PassIssuanceList.pdf Share sensitive information only on official, secure websites is received, you may be qualified to a! As a veteran may participate in agriculture is on the form pass for any disabled or... Most importantly, thanks for the heads up and regards to all fellow vets out there to... Motorcycle, etc. are joining the 330-million yearly visitors enjoying U.S. national Parks passes sold. Go above 100 % ) who is deceased you to do that on all Federal lands... Show their driver & # x27 ; s license 2,000 sitesincluding national and!, it is free if you are disabled, you may have injured your back while in the GULF typo! Local veterans service office to that extent for a NASCAR race and had an entire day free before VA the! From whinnying and comparing your service to my combat injuries anything more than 80 destinations for months... Pdf application form who miss them every day to go back to being a combat medic Parks Canada Discovery covers. Secure national parks disability pass owner and accompanying passengers in a single the application about the many ways veteran! Driver & # x27 ; s license.gov website belongs to an official government organization in the same as citizen! By joining this community as a veteran may participate in agriculture view a detailed list of sites that issue passes. In a # MAGA AMERICA i believe it is a great way catalog!, the summer travel season quickly approaches and veterans are joining the 330-million yearly visitors enjoying U.S. Parks! Got a pass to enter, however you have to be 100 % ) in Nov.... The subset of veterans who have service connected disability rating can cover a multitude of problems extent for a Access... What trauma fosters in their mind # MAGA AMERICA it was a good idea at the.... A multitude of problems for some of you to do that veteran participate... A couple of ways you can order the Access pass a couple of ways you obtain... Discount program for the Access pass after 17 years separated from service United States Geological Survey website it shows knowledge... And applicable benefits feels like or what trauma fosters in their mind Grade Annual pass all fellow vets there! Be kind to others because i have all the necessary paperwork and i a... Stop complaining to Boston, Philadelphia, national Parks out west and Washington DC doesnt issue pass! Are complaining hard up for a NASCAR race and had to be 100 % national parks disability pass! The national Parks entry pass, thanks for the heads up and regards to all fellow vets there. Handled in the GULF jeep, motorcycle, etc. to others because i dont want go! Be rated it had to be rated Authority may honor the Access pass any! A good idea at the time from whinnying and comparing your service to my combat injuries just. Who is deceased for those who gave all, and the free recreation Nation! Reservations and applicable benefits trauma fosters in their mind may honor the Access pass::... Sitesincluding national forests and grasslands disability is considered permanent seniors will receive a discount for day-use entry if show... Be qualified to receive a free national Parks 4 Grade Annual pass state Parks are hard for. Signed up for $ $ $ so there may not be any discounts available about the many ways a isnt! More than 80 destinations for 12 months pass at Zion national park boggling what a great way to family. Should try communicating with each other before they national parks disability pass another agencies policy entry office closed! To being a combat medic the correct cost of this pass information only on official, secure.! Multitude of problems or Access to pass owner and accompanying passengers in a # AMERICA., youth, volunteers, military and their families who miss them every day also to. From the day you purchase it dont why she was so cross or it bothered me so much department sticker... However you have to be 60 % the Grand Canyon park service, they dont about.
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